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Pak64.UK Development Thread and Diary

Started by KneeOn, March 09, 2020, 02:16:59 PM

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Cheers Gamer, a few points you raise very much depend on what the user does to prevent the grahpics look like they're crashing in to each other. That will hopefully form part of Extended's documentation if I can't copy it in to the text config files.  Once I get started on signalling I'll start looking over that document you emailed me. TCB will be first and might even be the only way of signalling in v0.1 - ERTMS getting painted and implemented is not as much of a priority compared to getting the trains re-written and everything working for at least some sort of full game.

I'm back at work right now - two night shifts to get through. Next week I'll be working all six shifts on my shift pattern so no WFH days and therefore slower progress. There is at least one more station to draw out to complete the progression from shelter/buildings to span roofs - the metal shelter. I have a plan in mind but if I can't get that plan to work with the existing shelter then I will think of something else for those stations and then look to draw a fourth station - shelter, canopy and island counterparts in a very contemporary 2020 style, ability depending.

In the mean time you can have a peek at the latest update with continuing work on the station evolution for the first brick platforms I drew. Below that is an explanation as to what I've been up to, learned and implemented and what is next. I've also written about the project and a decision i've taken in relation to the Extended highlevel plans. Please skip if you're not interested in my ramblings. At the very, very end is a small bit of good news for those following this or playing pak.64 tile sets. Some of the boring bit may be of interest to those who want to read about the release coming up. It is highlighted.

Boring bit you can skip if you want:

I've drawn and demonstrated the two brick styles new span roof stations. No test has been done yet to check if they work front image/back image wise but the span canopy which was the first to be front/back image sorted has been used as a base so the images should be in the right place and referenced in the dat file. I've achieved this by using a sensible naming convention for my internal testing meaning changes are very quick to implement. I only need to find/replace on wordpad a single phrase or word to create the right datfile for each platform type. Evidence of how fool proof this is in the metal shelter. I think I've converted all buildings apart from the brick island platforms to front/back image files in GIMP but and the metal shelter has been re-exported but the dat file has not been updated to reflect that it is now 8x8 rather than 4x4 tiles. Red X tiles are not referenced in the dat file - using the wand I split the original station in to the span or shelter, and the platform i.e front and back image. On span roofing that has an obvious cosmetic influence - it prevents the platform showing above the train or the train showing above the roof. On the smaller station/shelter buildings it is only apparent if you pair the small island with the span roof - it means the station doesn't have a graphical jump. Only two of the four views require this (thanks Pak128.Britain sources for guiding me there!). Therefore I alternate on the 4 view required lines so the station buildings all work. Long story short, it means I am wanding, copying, pasting, exporting and then converting an already front/back image dat file. This runs nicely through makeobj.exe to create the cross compatible station tiles which wa-platform and pak128.Britain have - i'm playing catch up because I didn't realise this would be required for every building. Stand by for the last buildings to be painted. Essentially platforms are back images, buildings are front images and only 2/4 directions require this split. By alternating blanked off tiles on the back image only tiles, you keep everything nicely lined up so you can have consistency. It seems complicated however if you want to get involved (more on that down below) I will be able to explain it more clearly as much as you need to make sure you can create something for the pakset you can be proud of!

Boring bit which may be relevant if you're interested in what buildings I will be drawing and releasing in relation to the 'good news'

I've also had a thought having read the extended high level ambitions for the first time. I had planned some 'cosmetic only' buildings which is the opposite of one of the principles. I do still intend to do so, it is not realistic either graphically or economically for a depot which holds hundreds of carriages to cover 1 tile and be able to be a 2 tile track spur. The wa-platform creators have depot tiles which act as stations but have no capacity. You can use these to draw huge realistic depots and have the associated track cost. The only possible function they can serve is as turn back sidings to keep platforms clear but only up to a point - you'd have empty platforms for all but the busiest stations which require 20+ platforms but have half that amount at the most. Therefore the depot plan will be kept, especially if the way depots are used change over time - I imagine at some point in the future that depots will change and so I'm half future proofing.  I have two or three ideas for extended features, one relates to this but I do not know how to code so I will suggest these to throw ideas in to the ring if jamespetts and the team want to explore them on the appropriate thread.

However I did intend to include more station buildings than perhaps would be required to serve any function - all for graphic variation in stations. For example, an entrance, single story and two story set of entrances and offices (in each style) would be complemented with variants of those offices and street-retail entrances. The offices and street-retail entrances would serve no other purpose than a different graphic to expand by an amount already covered by the 'standard' range of entrances i.e. the variants would be very, very redundant. I've not considered mail transport at all during the station creation process, and feel having varying capacity of office space given over to mail staff would give these a genuine function and close a gap I have.

Therefore there will be three passenger only extensions for each style, not including large vanity/terminus, multi-tile buildings which will serve a clear function (major interchange buildings). I will then draw two or three extensions which add both passenger and mail capacity - retail units capable of processing small amounts of post, offices which can handle more post and then postal hubs built above/next to the station extensions. These will all be graphically different from the passenger ones, so I keep my variation plans in the station environment but I don't contravene that suggested principle beyond what I consider sensible i.e. the depots being able to reflect some real-life cost and look.

Good news update (mostly the last sentence, there are some more rambling thoughts before that though):

Lastly, I've been thinking about release time frames, work required, how I want to progress this. It has dominated almost my entire time away from work and on my commute - drawing buildings and making dat files simply to test the graphics. I am enjoying it, but there will come a point where progression loses its pace because I want to do the other things I enjoy doing a bit more especially gaming.

I'm really keen to drop this all in one go when ready for a V0.1 which is some way off so people don't start a bigger game with half the pakset and have to use too much from other pak-files such as city buildings or attractions then find the actual release is then incompatible. Pak256 (a very, very attractive and well drawn pak from the screenshots!) did the same - a v0.1 drop was playable, if sparse and added to, not breaking any games.

I implore anyone who can/wants to learn how to paint or do dat files to get in touch - the pak now has a flavour I think, and I've only been able to produce the buildings I have in the quality I have since starting - you can see clear progression where buildings have gotten more refined I think. I'm much prouder of more recent work (re-worked terrace buildings and the new stations). Basically, don't be daunted by the process. If you're brand new ask what's needed and i'll guide you through email, DMs or forum posts with suggestions to help you make something you can be proud of. The more hands who can paint signals, depots, city attractions, bus stops, roads, city-buildings, air, sea, tram and other infrastructure, industries etc, etc, the quicker this can be released. There's no obligation to take on more, and there's no specific deadline - you'll paint as you want at the pace you want with a clear design plan which is adaptable and I'd love input on. If you're experienced and simply want to get straight on with it using what you can see please do as well - it's open to anyone and everyone who thinks they want to contribute a building or an entire set of something.

However: Carl pointed out that new pak.64 buildings, especially stations, have been lacking in recent years. This is in part because wa-platform held a well earned monopoly for those who don't use homogeneous paksets like pa64.german which I imagine come with their own station sets. Therefore once I have drawn at least the current station evolution and their accompanying station buildings (to a point) I will release the stations! 

I do tend to post these updates either after a day of painting or (like now) on the train to a night shift when i've had no sleep and can't structure my thoughts so well, so thank you for sticking with the long winded diary of the creation of a new pakset!


Quote from: KneeOn on April 25, 2020, 06:20:20 PM
Cheers Gamer, a few points you raise very much depend on what the user does to prevent the grahpics look like they're crashing in to each other. That will hopefully form part of Extended's documentation if I can't copy it in to the text config files.  Once I get started on signalling I'll start looking over that document you emailed me. TCB will be first and might even be the only way of signalling in v0.1 - ERTMS getting painted and implemented is not as much of a priority compared to getting the trains re-written and everything working for at least some sort of full game.

In the mean time you can have a peek at the latest update with continuing work on the station evolution for the first brick platforms I drew. Below that is an explanation as to what I've been up to, learned and implemented and what is next. I've also written about the project and a decision i've taken in relation to the Extended highlevel plans. Please skip if you're not interested in my ramblings. At the very, very end is a small bit of good news for those following this or playing pak.64 tile sets. Some of the boring bit may be of interest to those who want to read about the release coming up. It is highlighted.

If you need anymore assistance regarding signalling, let me know and also will any modern style station be made as they all seam modern enough but old in a certain way


Hi Gamer, I'll email you regarding signalling if needed when the time comes. Thank you!

Regarding the stations look - the fact you've said that means I've pretty much smashed what I was going for - stations which suit the modern platforms but as slightly older ones. They fit the present but are not built during the present.

To answer your question yes, the metal shelter will get a metal modern span which I hope will be a post 2000/2010 look. If I cannot work my current idea in then a fourth, ultra modern and new style will be developed. This might not make the station release which I hope to do by the end of May at the latest.

I'll sort the metal span roof, then associated passenger buildings and release the unbalanced station tiles before going on to do the ultra modern station (if required or desired), the emptier platform and start work on classical stations - art deco is one theme I'm considering. If I'm super efficient then perhaps I'll have everything listed done by May and release it all then rather than just what I have planned.



I'm having a shocker in getting some sort of span metal roof to work. I know what I want to achieve, a modern larger station look however most large station platforms tend to be older roofs that are updated rather than brand new builds. We haven't had a brand new, from scratch new large terminus in this country for a while - even KGX and STP retained their frontage and older feel with modern innards and minor roof improvements.

This makes finding something suitable for the platforms specifically a challenge. I've spent all day painting and trying to find a way to make this work and i've not come up with anything i'm happy to include. I've even considered tracing the curved roof on the pak64gcg building because the curve is of the right size and I cannot, despite my efforts, replicate anything which suits the metal shelter.

I'm including a screenshot of the only finished attempt i've done today and present two ideas

1. I can persist and try to make this work
2. I can consider the metal shelter to be my modern minor station design, to go on plainer platforms where a shelter is wanted perhaps alongside the plain platform. This would act as the shelter, bench and small open shelter all in one as I have discussed. I will then start again tomorrow with a different design - i've got Crossrail in mind as my fourth station type, inspired by Canary Wharf and also take a look at the DLR. I am also going to look at LUL stations for an art-deco style station type

I'm minded to go for option 2, I'm not happy with how any of the work has looked and I don't think i'm going to be able to get something I'm happy with that will match the style of the metal shelter. There are other modern platform types I can do, including modern glass roofed re-vamped older style buildings (Liverpool Street, Lime Street, Kings Cross, Preston etc) - maybe something pointed roof but the points instead of running parallel to the tracks, run adjacent to them with modern windows represented by transparent sections like the canopy span roof.

I'm also going to look at a gentler, single arch pointed roof style that spans two tracks for another brick/older style inner suburban station.

I'm going to sleep on it, review the work tomorrow but please let me know what you think of this work, it is rough but it does match up in terms of pixel placement - I don't think it looks good. 

If I do go for option two the following stations will be considered for painting:

1. Crossrail/Canary Wharf style
2. Poplar DLR style
3. Art-deco LUL
4. Single span older roof style
5. Bare platform repaint (this will happen)
6. A Kings Cross/Liverpool Street/Preston style revamped building.
EDIT: The current modern platform shelter having a classic counterpart, perhaps without full length sheltering but smaller bus shelter style or even just adding spaces so even the middle platform has gaps in the wall so it looks more 'classic' so that's another station to paint but shouldn't take too long.

These will all come with island and side platform variants and will work full length so include the platform slope and appropriate end buildings/walls for each one so that'll be a total (if all get done) 12 modern platforms left to paint. I envisage as many as 4 or 5 of those to be converted to classic platform, along with most if not all of the existing ones. That's a lot of stations so hopefully May will see pak64 get its first wide range of new stations for some time!

Let me know what you think of the work and the above ideas/plans!


Shameful update:

I've not posted any real progress apart from yesterday - which I am not happy with. I revisted several options today to progress the list that i've posted.

I've modified the canopy stations roof and wall colouring to create the rounded roof, art deco style London Underground platforms. I've then tried to address Canary Wharf Crossrail station. This is especially tricky being so rounded. I've put a peg in it for now, because I'm not sure how it looks with other stations and the overall map. I will be continuing to look in to this.

The shameful bit: I looked at doing the Kings Cross/Preston/Lime Street station, and it is really very difficult to get the roof. I have opted today to trace out the curve of the CGC railway station and then modify it, and I am happier with how this looks than anything I could do on my own. I'm not happy that I've essentially used their work quite as much as I have. Reading in to licences, I think that by including the source in my own pakset of the original, appropriate copyrighting the pakfile and making this post public, I am working within the open source licencing. I am very happy to be corrected and will go back to the drawing board. At this time I can't find the copyright for it but I will go to the sources and find it for appropriate crediting in the paks dat file (made by: modified by: or even just made by:), on the documentation (already being written for the credits to keep track of all sources) and on this thread.

I will say that it very, very much suits the look of the pak - the colouring in helps but the structure work they have done is very close to several major stations and would suit if it is appropriate to keep in the pakset.

A small note on this, there is a side and island version. The island may be flattened on the roof so it creates a modern single span station tomorrow, but this reduces flexibility so i'm not sure I will do so.

Attached is the latest update - you can see the two stations. For the sake of comparison I've included the original station I have modified, please chip in with feedback on this - especially if the understanding of open source is wrong.


Quote from: KneeOn on April 29, 2020, 09:44:32 PM
Attached is the latest update - you can see the two stations. For the sake of comparison I've included the original station I have modified, please chip in with feedback on this - especially if the understanding of open source is wrong.

Nice work buddy. 👍🏾


I am so happy to see another attempt being made at a Pak64 Extended pakset, not least because I am currently drawing an addon for Pak64, PigeonPack, and I hope to port it over to Extended once that is possible even though it doesn't fit the British theme of this pakset. One question I have, though, is what the economic balancing is going to be like - will it be like traditional Pak64, with high running costs but high profit potential, or will it be more like Pak128.Britain?
Thank you,


I have seen your thread and have to say I am impressed with the dedication to expanding the original pak64! Clearly, we both feel 64x64 tilesets still have an place within Simutrans. I really like the mix of importing pak128 which has many more buildings and your own work - it's of very high quality and I might have a closer look because you've managed to get a few bits which I've struggled with looking really nice. It really does look like natural progression for pak64.

I've not forgotten my deadline - it's going to be a lot tighter than I hoped because my working from home (which involves sitting around doing nothing) has been cancelled next week which was the time I had set aside for doing a lot of work!

That said, i've taken stock of where I am with that deadline, had a few unproductive days and there is an update:

I have settled nicely on the current platform tiles. Apart from the bare ones, the stations shown off so far will be the ones that I will release. I've held off updating while I tinker and play because every promise, update, plan is subject to change! Some notes on release:

There is still a plan, later, for a single span roof but the style isn't yet decided.
Crossrail/canary wharf style was actually created however did not fit the set. If I get time I will release this as a stand alone.
Poplar/DLR stations already look largely like the metal shelter - they're not very detailed.
Art deco - DONE (possibly a candidate for the single span roof style)
KGX/Preston roof - covered by the modification of the CGC style station that ships with pak64 anyway
Bare platforms - will be done last of all before release. They're actually ready and done because it forms the basis for all other stations I just need to add a fence and signs.

There is still around 12 styles - bare, red and brown brick classic buildings, red and brown brick canopies, red and brown classic spans, red and brown canopy spans, metal shelter, metal span, art deco all of which will come in two eras for a total of 47 station tiles (the canopy span has a shared island).

I now turn to station buildings for release. Again, I am ambitious and have 56 interchangeable station buildings of 7 variants across 8 styles: stone, brick, metal, ornate pillar (of stone style - this one is subject to change but i'm keen to have a grander station look), a revamped stone and revamped brick style (mixture of stone/brick and metal/glass) and two LUL inspired builds.

As mentioned subject to change.

I need your help though. I've started to build the stone buildings, the entrance/ticket office and the station hall. I have come in to a dilemma however. Which looks better as an extension to the station entrance? I've extended the front and kept the height the same with a flat roof across the slanted tiles for one option (on the right). The other is flat single story extension appended on to the pointed roof (on the left). Pictures for compairson are attached.

I favour the left option.

EDIT: I've struck through the dilemma. I settled on the left, and will show this off in a new post later once I have finished todays work. Hopefully I'll have a lot of work to show off either the .pngs or if I get around to it today, some in the wild examples.


The edited post above alluded to a proper update.

Below display of one view from each of the station extension buildings drawn so far, and a demo of how the hall attaches to the canopy station island as per the style. All station buildings come in four rotation, two season format as per city buildings. They're a lot quicker to produce than the actual stations so far! I've roughly coloured the light blue according to how the general colour may look of track and road to give a sense of how the colours compare.

In order going across - entrance, hall, office, shop, parade (2 shops) and tower
Going down - stone, brick, metal, stone revamp - in progress. To come: brick revamp, LUL1, LUL2 - i've not decided if these will follow the same variants so far. I may well look at these having a few more limited options - entrance, hall, shop, parade for example.

Half length, half width (1/4 tile) corner buildings are yet to be drawn and probably won't be in the end of month release. As you can see they're modular so could slot together as you organically grow your stations with height and width both contributing to show off which stations are more important, busier or otherwise special. They should work together regardless of style - scale and heights are all the same and the shops/parades extend out the same 6x10 pixels so there won't be any mismatch in theory but full testing will be required in due course. For that reason the release of these won't be final.



Quote from: KneeOn on May 09, 2020, 05:24:27 PM


Nice work and boy does that station building fit in well with the platforms. ;)


Thank you.

Buildings are being built at a nice rate. I've decided to omit some of the variants for the LUL1 building, mostly because it felt somewhat redundant and wouldn't match the overall style of the building i've used as a base. For reference, I've used Oakwood and Osterly station's, taken from this article:

I'm quite pleased with how the LUL1 has turned out. It suits overground stations for sure. I am planning on doing a LUL2 in Leslie Green inspired style. I'm not sure if I will make that over-ground compatible with rear 2px high doors yet. I may be able to do big windows at 2px high which can double as doors.

Attached are some examples of current work with no particular decisions on which of each to show.

Brick Revamp is a red brick hybrid station building set. It doesn't specifically link with any station type. The red brick canopy station will get a re-paint of the brown brick canopy station tiles to fit with that station set.

Red and brown brick classic platforms are designed to fit with the stone. I may repaint these in red/brown brick and have stone buildings for colours.

Stone Revamp is the hybrid stone buildings, with big glass roofs, fronts or highlights on the tower.

LUL1 is the one described as above and I'm quite proud of it - it clicks with the art deco platforms including the trim.

Only two more styles to consider and paint, some recolouring and then its neatening the stations, removing guidelines and paking time for a quick beta test and release. I'll be painting more this week to and from some of my shifts and then finishing the platforms paking next week on my days off - all should be on course!

Feedback appreciated as always.


When you get onto the railway infrastructure, I would suggest sticking with the trackset used by Carl in his pakset but make less but different track types as opposed to using a whole track set with different speed limits (although realistic, I feel like its too much and often goes unused). I would suggest the following (in order of max. speed):
-Type 1 - Heavy (100km/h)
-Type 2 - Light (120km/h)
-Type 3 - Light (145km/h)
-Type 4 - Medium (160km/h)
-Type 5 - Medium (200km/h)
-Type 6 - Heavy (320km/h)

Light - Light weighted trains (i.e. Metro and Light Rail)
Medium - Medium weighted trains (i.e. Lighter Freight Wagons, Lighter Locomotives, Multiple Units, Passenger Coaches)
Heavy - Heavy weighted trains (i.e. Heavier Freight Wagons, Heavier Locomotives)


I agree with the principle, especially having a slow and heavy track for freight only lines. I'd definitely add a very slow depot track though. Carl's track set is for a very detailed map rather than general gameplay so I'll be trimming the excess off.

The issue with using Carl's set of tracks is, even reduced, that is still 21 individual menu entries for track work (3*7, 3 pieces per speed), 50(ish) stations entries, 40(ish) station buildings and we haven't gone on to signals, depots, boxes or electrification, bridges and tunnels yet. Having all signal types will present additional menu items.

On a HD screen, that'll be perhaps 3 or 4 rows which isn't awful. OPEC and similar countries have a simutrans following however, where resolutions may be lower and half the screen could be menu!

There is a balance to be found here, I very much like Carl's set of tracks and don't love having the ground tile flank the ballast. I also want the menu to be accessible, serve the right functions and not have a minimum resolution requirement to play in practice, even if not in theory.

Perhaps it'll be that the set ships with a more limited set of tracks with ballast flanked by the ground tile.

I'll know more once I've got myself a working alpha to test and everything rail has been painted.

On a side note are you able to look at rolling axel weight and it's relationship to speed limits, track wear etc? If not I'll search the NWR archive for wear per ton per mile or something similar. The track wear feature is well documented.


Evening, mini update.

There are a reduced number of LUL buildings. As mentioned, LUL1 lacks the shop and the hall.
LUL2 has a further limited amount, it has entrance, office and tower because having shop/parade/hall was redundant and looked too minor to justify having those changes. It is overground compatible to cater for those who want to use it in that way but the building suits a non-overground station more than LUL1.

I've started on the 'pillar' set - this is going to at least have entrance which is almost done! Below is a sample. The buildings on this set will grow as per the other buildings, but there will be some differences.

Firstly, it will have a grander roof from hall onwards.

Tower may not be the traditional tower, but two small towers flanking the front angled roof you can see. I may incorporate these two towers earlier and still have a traditional 'tower' as per the others but this one may extend all the way across to have a 'wall to wall' feel if I can get it to slot together. I'll have a play. I'm hoping this work will be done this week, to give me time to build the basic platforms, remove all guidelines, pak, test that the paks draw and building views are correct, iron out any pixel issues and then I'll be releasing both on this thread and on the standard pak64 addons board in a new thread. Discussion around development will continue here with a focus on extended but there may be considerations to give on the standard board, similar to how other paksets have two boards. I'm not sure if this is the correct thing to do!

Anyway, enjoy your first pillar entrance.

Edit: So there is a couple of catastrophic mistakes which mean i'm essentially starting from scratch. Pakset development and pixel drawing absolutely sucks sometimes!


Update: I had a complete and I believe irreparable failure of my laptop last week. It's completely bricked/dead

Luckily I have been able to recover files from the SSD on to my brother in laws old, must be plugged in, 5 generations old, no graphics card laptop today so I will review what I have lost - hopefully just the file I was working on when the laptop decided to stop being a laptop.

Best case scenario - I've lost 30 minutes work.
Worst case scenario - I've lost a days work.

I will be backing up online (this should have been done using onedrive but it wasn't, which is infuriating but lucky hasn't mattered because I've been able to do the SSD trick).

It might mean a week or so delay while I get everything on here set up and lose time I could have spent working on the train because the laptop won't run on battery but i'll consider where i'm at as the weeks ahead unfold.

Project is still alive, just frustrated by the broken laptop and really poor consumer market right now for purchasing a laptop of sufficient spec to do all the other things I need it to do and how much that will cost should the warranty not cover it.


Sorry to hear that - really annoying thing to have happened. I live in fear of that sort of thing - especially the backups failing....


It's a stinker, I've still not looked in to what I have lost but I'm confident it's going to be okay.  I have only lost the building I was working on. Everything else remains and I am now backing up the entirety of the work via email online.

Once I've drawn the pillar/tower/grander entrance tiles, I'll Pak, test and release. Corner tiles for wrap around terminating platforms are going to wait for now but will eventually be done. have zero% finance but I'm going to hold off and carrying on saving for now - the lack of after work drinks mean I have more opportunities to save the money to replace the laptop out right and I can continue, albeit on a slower, older, not as portable device.

I tried to run the Bridgewater-Brunel final save map to see what it was like, this couldn't load it.


I have spent this morning happily finishing off the building I lost. Thankfully that was building 41/41. I have also, boringly, created the scaled images for the menu entries for the station buildings. This has had to go on a separate image because it would be far, far more time consuming to make the image and then expand the document, paste the menu item in the right place and then save. 

I get to do it all again for all station platforms once I've done the classic platforms and then the bare platforms! Not the most exciting part of the process, but dat files shouldn't take too long.

Enjoy a preview of what the menu items will look like for all 41 station buildings I have painted to get an idea of what to expect!


A diary entry/thinking aloud on this development diary/thread I have running.

I have finished the station buildings graphics - menu, preview, all 4 rotations in both summer and winter varieties.
I have finished all modern station buildings I have drawn, all coloured appropriately with their menu and preview graphics.

Paint the bare platform in modern both island and sides - that'll be a quick paint.
Copy all stations and colour for classic platforms - that'll be a quick colour map
Scale all images for the classic variants - slightly time consuming
Export all images - a quick job
Write all dat files using the very clever find/replace/save as features - shouldn't take too long. I'll be doing both standard and experimental but only after checking if there are any specific extended changes for stations and extension buildings.

It seems like an awful lot of work. It's not small, but it is far smaller than the month I've spent painting these stations and extensions. As mentioned I have had a loss of my laptop so won't be able to work on this to and from work which slows progress. Ultimately I think we get 80 buildings or platforms, I haven't yet counted.

I will make a new thread on pak64 standard child board for the release and keep that a bit less rambling than this one.

What's next? What's the roadmap now? When will we get some more stuff?
Signals. Track Circuit Block and 4 types of signal boxes to be released as soon as they are done. This will achieve the minimum stated aim of getting Carls trains workable as an addon, in extended, as they are. I've got no idea how much work goes in to the signals in extended, so there's no time frame on this.

Curiosities! Attractions! I'm going to get some single tile ones going. We move towards an alpha if we do a few. Likely to be parks, small statues, small venues etc.

Industries. Power, some various types of sea and land based ones. This will involve researching the new fields etc. I've not played since these became a thing so that'll take some trial and error I think. Again, this moves us all closer to an alpha. At worst, it'll be a comprehensive addon for pak64 and extended as it stands. At best, it could stand alone in some form.

Some other things: I will not be doing extra/new track equipment - by this i mean redrawing pantos or adding third/fourth rail. This is simply because I don't think its needed as much as other things. Third rail has time and time again added nothing. Fourth rail can add something so I will consider that if we get more 64 px tube trains.

That's where we are at, with what's left for this station addon and where we are heading after that gets released.

I'll review this roadmap once the above is done for getting more content out asap. Once I have a V0.1 going, content will be added rather than hoarded up for a release until we get to something I'm happy to call beta. Beta will be bursting with content but unbalanced I think.

As ever, thank you for reading and please chip in with thoughts/ideas etc.
See ya'll soon with the stations!


Hi KneeOn, great job. Thanks.

One thing I don't understand, is the pak based on Carl's pak64 experimenta or the standard 64?



Neither, it's based solely on his UK trains, tracks and the buses from his game save.

It's also going to feature some pak64 elements such as ground tiles/terrains/half heights.

It will be released as both an experimental and standard set.

EDIT: I realise what you mean - it was early when I answered! I am not basing this on any existing work, i'm building it around Carls trains (and buses). I will use ground tiles from pak64, which (i think) are the same across both the extended and standard branches because they fit and I don't think i'm going to make my own any time soon.

I will, for alpha, also be using some elements such as airports and docks but on the V.1 there won't be any buildings shared with the original pak64, there will be British themed airports, docks, stations, depots, busses, roads, buildings, attractions, industry etc.

v1 won't be the most fleshed pakset available however it will have British attractions and buildings.

Apart from a minor graphical change (adding 'C' and 'M' for classic and modern platforms to help distinguish the menu icons) I have now finished all graphical work! I'll be doing that work tomorrow and Sunday and paking up over the next week and a half.


Update: The big one.

Here we have it. I have uploaded on to dropbox my pak64 station/extensions in all its glory. Link to the forum article:,

Please, feedback to me what you like/don't like.

I hope you all enjoy it.


Hello, firstly I am taking a short break from painting.

The reason for this is my laptop will be repaired and returned as new to me! This has a HD screen and can be taken on trains to work, so I'd rather wait for that to arrive. This is a few days at most, and in the mean time I'm looking in to making signals for both extended and standard, what they require and how to write the dat files - so rest assured this isn't a long pause.

I've updated the front post however I thought I'd also post here. Simutrans had a spike of popularity with Steam and is still averaging a few hundred downloads a week.

That said, I'd love to do my bit to generate more interest and I think social media is ripe for plugging and pushing content and generating interest.

Therefore i have made two accounts.

Firstly, I'm on twitter @Pak64GB

Secondly I'm on Facebook @Pak64GB with a page title of Pak64.GB - Simutrans

If you're so inclined, give it a like or a follow to see smaller updates. I will be posting long posts on here still but once the laptop is back, more "behind the scenes" one off screenshots of development will be posted on those pages. There won't be a disparity between here and the feeds however, all information for development will be on here while all releases will be on the appropriate board, for Standard and Experimental files to keep bug reporting and feedback nice and clean.


Good thinking - social media is especially good for sharing images etc - those seem to be particularly good at driving interest. I'd recommend posting a link to the main Simutrans fan page on facebook too:

and maybe also to the discord - I think this is the link


When I get the laptop back it'll be easier to manage the page and I'll get links shared a bit more.

It's weird, there's a small and close community that I don't think makes up a significant portion of the player base!


So it's been two weeks since my last update and I thought i'd give a brief update. I've been tweeting/posting on Facebook sporadically and once development restarts fully i'll be sharing progress between releases on there, with a few selected bits put here.

I am getting a new (and much better) laptop delivered hopefully this week and have already bought a mouse to use.

I've noticed several bugs with the station pak set - the main one being all icons have 'M' rather than 'C' or 'M' denoting a classic or modern platform scheme - i'll get that fixed asap. I've also noticed that I can't find some of my buildings, i'm sure I have them somewhere on an email I sent to back them up so will look in to that. That'll be because of the porting from the old laptop to this one, hopefully i've not lost work.

In the mean time, I've been looking and learning about signalling. I'm considering how many pixels to use for each light - 4 px in a 2x2 arrangement per light seems like that might be a touch too many for a 4 aspect signal but i'll tinker about some more. I've also drawn my first signal box and have an idea for the second one which will be more modern.

I also gave consideration to any 'quick wins' for variation in sports attractions. I did say my ambition would be to draw all 92 football league stadiums however I've reconsidered this. It would be a project in and of its self to do that much work, likely incorporating painting 16-32 tiles, per rotation, per stadium. That is several thousand tiles to paint and i'd rather work on getting this pakset drawn.

It has been mentioned by Wlindley that recycling tiles can be just as useful as re-colouring buildings to build in lots of visually varied and engaging graphics with 128.Britain using this method for several attractions.

I will be considering using this for football and sports venues. Having three types of seating, in two or more eras would be a lot less work and much like the stations would be designed to slot together. Something like:
Lower tier end, lower tier middle, lower tier end modern
Upper tier end, upper tier middle, upper tier end modern
Lower tier end, lower tier middle, lower tier end classic
Upper tier end, upper tier middle, upper tier end classic
Blank, office, blank with food carts
From these I can create stadiums between 1-4 sides, with additional tiers on 1-4 sides at possibly a 2x4, 3x6 or 4x8 sized attraction.

That's a lot, lot less to draw than all 92 stadiums. Just those tiles would work out at 120 tiles required for the biggest stadium of two tiers plus some space around the side for offices or food stalls or blank land for waiting to get in.

In one colour I estimate that would be around 30 stadiums of varying sizes and eras. It's not a lot more work to add a few different colours of seating.
With the addition of colours that can interchange with each other to make interesting striped seating blocks or solid block colours that would make a UK sized map have plenty of football teams represented in game without being the same building multiplied across the map.

The same concept can be applied to parks - by doing a series of 1x1 parks without fences initially, it's not a small leap to add fences for those 1x1 tiles and then the suitable fences for the outer tiles on 1x2, 2x2, 3x2, 3x3, 4x3 and so on, so small local parks up to large city parks are catered for.

This can also be applied to shopping centres, museums, closed roof arenas and possibly more.

If I get a chance to mock up some of these stadium tiles tonight I will.

That's where I am at, it's been nice to have a small break but I am really keen to get started again!


Signal boxes are now finished for TCB and ERTMS. There is a facebook post with these on:
Twitter also has some updates on various bits of progress:

These include in-development and mock ups of a stadium and the progress of the signal boxes.

There is a post about the stadium on Facebook too.

Briefly, I made a stadium but the corner pieces didn't quite fit in. I will use my template of 2 rows of 4 ground tiles by duplicating the ground tiles upwards to act as a roof. This should then mean they fit nicely for the sides and ends of a stand, with the same being applied to roofing so there might be a completed stadium graphics set this afternoon. Luckily, things like roof supports as seen on the social media pages can simply be copied and pasted, as can the type of banking so it is about tweaking these to actually fit together to make a single tier bowl. End pieces are an easy one to make non-bowl stadiums (i.e. 4 separate stands).

EDIT: I'm asking for feedback on the three signal types i've designed - these have call on and diverging route indicators (although both won't be present on any signal at the moment, that might change down the line). Here is the tweet:

And here is the image:

A selection of the work:


Nice work bud. Hopefully trains will be next


Sorting trains for extended is much, much lower down the list of jobs to do for the moment. The priority is getting a sandbox playable release rather than sorting out the tiny details on the trains themselves because that's going to be part of balancing anyway. I also need to read about what the changes in traction/breaking/other parameters mean which is a big task on its own.

I'd be surprised if I were to refresh the dat files for Carls trains this year.

Any thoughts on which signal looks best/easiest to play?


Hard to tell on the signals without seeing them in-game. I'd guess that the lights on the middle one are too small, but not sure.


Quote from: KneeOn on June 16, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
Sorting trains for extended is much, much lower down the list of jobs to do for the moment. The priority is getting a sandbox playable release rather than sorting out the tiny details on the trains themselves because that's going to be part of balancing anyway. I also need to read about what the changes in traction/breaking/other parameters mean which is a big task on its own.

I'd be surprised if I were to refresh the dat files for Carls trains this year.

Any thoughts on which signal looks best/easiest to play?

Signal number one looks the best and in terms of trains dm me


Thanks, the hard creative work on making signals is done, it's just systematically creating the up to 76 individual pngs to cover each state across each aspect and each signal type.

I'll get going on the signals

Gamer i'll DM you when the time comes for trains to be updated to extended standard.


Not sure if I said elsewhere, but the work on the stadiums is really impressive and the early stuff on signals looks great!

Stadiums, along with golf courses, are one of those things that I always wish I could show visually on the GB map whenever they occur.


I rather ambitiously planned on doing all 92 football league stadiums - there is no way I can turn that out, they're really awkward to match up!

Thankfully the stadium is now fit together graphically and the pitch is designed. It'll be an evening of angrily changing a dat file once i've finished the last bits of the signals best described as 'misc' like one way/end of choose/exclude from choose.

Thank you for the kind words!


Doing all 92 stadiums might seem a bit more achievable if you weren't trying to, you know, build a whole pakset as well  ;)


It's more that I don't think i'd be able to get the detail in several of the stadiums!

It's almost full time in the second premier league game. As promised, here is the stadium. I've given it the awful name of Holmes Park, this will change. It's one colour so far but again, other colours will be made available tomorrow. I'm going to paint some ground tiles to have some 2/3 sided stadiums as well and hopefully a stadium pak AND a signal pak will come by next week or Sunday if I'm not called in to work.

Drop box link:

Feedback is appreciated. Full zoom has some distortion, it's nothing major.

It only comes in Summer view for today but you might want to see how it works. Any future update will have the name "Holmes Park" so you can put it straight in and not lose your stadium.

EDIT: I contradicted my self in the post - the name won't change so when winter view is added, it can slot in to games rather than have the 'removed building' error.