The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Underground station extensions  (Read 22330 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Underground station extensions
« on: April 01, 2010, 05:18:04 PM »
As seen in the SMSC April edition
=>

It could be nice to have underground station extension ;)

Offline Ghost-cz

  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 11:22:56 AM »
Nice, I Want download It  ;D

Offline vilvoh

  • One of the good guys
  • Administrator (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • I'm the constructor, the architect
    • Escala real
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 11:33:45 AM »
Do you mean an extension building type just for underground mode, gauthier?

Offline The Hood

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 02:04:31 PM »
I'd certainly support extension buildings that could be built underground (currently they can only be built above ground).  I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0

Offline MoTw

  • *
  • Posts: 137
  • ~ Mister Kanister ~
    • Depp-City
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 02:08:45 PM »
Certainly a good idea. Especially in big cities where you use underground networks not to destroy the buildings but when stops get crowded, you need to "delete" houses in order to place extension buildings anyway.
I support underground extension buildings :D

Offline Fuzzy Peach

  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Creator of the Simuworld Challenges.
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 03:06:23 PM »
As do I. It's a good idea.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 04:04:21 PM »
I also support this proposal (including The Hood's) - it would make a lot of sense.

Offline Václav

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3267
  • formerly VaclavMacurek
  • Languages: CZ, EN
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 08:38:45 PM »
I also agree with idea of underground station extensions. Then very interesting subway stations could be built - for example real transfer stations where the first line has station on underground level 1 in one direction (for example left top - right bottom) and the second one has station on underground level 2 in else direction (left bottom - right top).

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 11:15:13 PM »
I'd certainly support extension buildings that could be built underground (currently they can only be built above ground).  I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0
:support:

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »
so ... waiting the saying of our dictator Prissi ;)

Offline The Hood

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 03:02:31 PM »
Any views from any of the dev team on this?  Would really help de-clutter menus and help make underground mode more interesting/better IMO.

Offline neroden

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 831
  • Nathanael Nerode
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 03:12:02 PM »
I also agree with idea of underground station extensions. Then very interesting subway stations could be built - for example real transfer stations where the first line has station on underground level 1 in one direction (for example left top - right bottom) and the second one has station on underground level 2 in else direction (left bottom - right top).
I already build these, but the lack of actual transfer passageways makes them look odd to say the least.  (I just imagine invisible elevators.)  :)

Yeah, this would be a really nice extension.

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 06:23:14 PM »
The dev team seems to not care  :-[

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 09:18:14 PM »
The dev team seems to not care  :-[

They probably just have more pressing projects :-) Being a developer can be hard work...

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2010, 04:24:04 AM »
Perhaps if someone makes graphics for stairways/escalators/entrances and ticket windows and stuff, they will code for it. Wouldn't be the first time, as I understand. :)

Offline vilvoh

  • One of the good guys
  • Administrator (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • I'm the constructor, the architect
    • Escala real
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2010, 08:29:27 AM »
The graphics are already painted, check the first post, and available for downloading at japanese.simutrans.com

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4593
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2010, 08:54:23 AM »
The dev team seems to not care  :-[
I would say, they have no time to care.

If there would be a patch out there that is working to some degree, the likelihood that something like this comes into trunk increases rapidly. But active programmers are rare these days :/

These request is not trivial to implement (but not very hard either). Some checks needs to be added to prevent tunnels being built through a stairway...

I'd certainly support extension buildings that could be built underground (currently they can only be built above ground).  I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0

This is definitely a good idea.

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 04:12:04 AM »
The graphics are already painted, check the first post, and available for downloading at japanese.simutrans.com
Oops. My mistake.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2010, 11:08:54 AM »
I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0

Support for this, and also for extension buildings.

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 975
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2010, 11:33:09 AM »
Perhaps in overground mode, you would see the traditional depots and extension buildings, but when you switch to underground mode, the toolbar would change, removing the overground-only ones and adding the underground ones?

This would address both this issue and the idea of better handling of Metros; see


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2010, 11:56:28 AM »
WLindley's idea is a good one - but, how would the toolbar separation work in sliced underground mode?

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2010, 12:05:01 PM »
Quote
when you switch to underground mode, the toolbar would change, removing the overground-only ones and adding the underground ones?

The best thing to do.
Also, since it's underground, a z axis system for underground extensions should be nice : I mean extension on multiple levels.

Also, some extensions should be able to be placed one on each over, so their picture change. ... maybe a schema to understand :D

_____________ (the ground)
EEEEEEEEEEEEE (the underground with nothing carved into)
EEEEOOEEEEEE (tubes)
EEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEOOEEEEEE (other tubes)

There the two stations have to be connected by an extension (only a graphical connection since there're already connected in game).
Extensions are built next to each station :

_____________
EEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEE[]OOEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEE[]OOEEEEEE

But we want to connect them ! :

_____________
EEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEE[]OOEEEEEE
EEE[]EEEEEEEEE
EEE[]OOEEEEEE

Graphicaly there are three extensions one on each over ... we want to have one big on the three levels : so graphics have to change :

_____________
EEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEE||OOEEEEEE
EEE||EEEEEEEE
EEE||OOEEEEEE

The multiple layouts system should be changed to have this kind of extension.

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9518
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2010, 07:23:51 PM »
How do you properly display then the tools in the sliced mode? Then this is the only mode such buildings could be built.

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2010, 08:41:50 PM »
The multiple levels'extensions aren't one building but multiple buildings which the picture changed, the same system as multiple layouts stations for example. So only the part of the extension which belong to the displayed level will be displayed.

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2010, 09:04:58 PM »
In slice mode, your menu should, I think, display either all tools, or only the underground extensions, since the reason to use slice mod is to see what's underground. But in aboveground mode, you could still place a 2-story extension, but only the above-ground portion would be shown/used for alignment, as per the subway staircase entrances of New York and other cities.

I agree about the multi-level extensions. It's one-level tiles that just use different graphics when lined up with compatible extensions on adjoining levels.

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9518
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2010, 09:16:57 PM »
Multilevel buildings is an entirely different topic, since current multi-level buildings are programming wise only one tile height.

Foundations and shafts for coal mines and oil rigs and normal building were a completely different extension topic.

(It is a very good way to never have thing done by going overboard with demands in the first round.)

Offline gauthier

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3628
    • SNFOS'website (in both FR and EN)
  • Languages: FR, EN, JP
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2010, 10:07:35 PM »
I don't understand neither Skreyola's answer nor Prissi's one ...

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4593
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2010, 05:25:27 AM »
My two cents: show icons of underground extension building only when in sliced undergroundmode. In full underground mode, simutrans would not know on which level it has to place said extension.

Coal shafts could be as well be implemented as some kind of underground fields.

Offline The Hood

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2010, 07:50:58 AM »
I think there are several issues here:

1) underground/overground only buildings/stations - use binary flag as suggested above to determine where they can be built (where they appear in menus is another issue!)
2) multi-level underground extensions: sliced view only sounds sensible to me as level can be determined exactly
3) foundations/mineshafts as underground fields sounds like a genius idea to me.

Although these are all related, I agree with prissi - not a good idea to overcomplicate things at the beginning.  Maybe each of these should be implmented separately, one at a time, and that would make it simpler for now.

Offline neroden

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 831
  • Nathanael Nerode
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2010, 03:15:23 PM »
I think there are several issues here:

1) underground/overground only buildings/stations - use binary flag as suggested above to determine where they can be built (where they appear in menus is another issue!)

Can buildings (station extensions, not platforms) be built underground at *all* right now?  I think they can't.  (EDIT: Am I wrong?  If I am, how do you build them?)  I would say that that should be part of step 1.  Make them buildable in sliced mode at least.

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4593
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2010, 03:42:25 PM »
Can buildings (station extensions, not platforms) be built underground at *all* right now?
No. This was the original extension request iirc.

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2010, 08:02:04 PM »
Multilevel buildings is an entirely different topic, since current multi-level buildings are programming wise only one tile height.

Foundations and shafts for coal mines and oil rigs and normal building were a completely different extension topic.

(It is a very good way to never have thing done by going overboard with demands in the first round.)
Sorry. I was not really saying multi-level extensions were necessary, just explaining how I imagined they would work if they were included. (per gauthier's comment)

Re: TheHood
I think you may be right about the implementation needing to be split out.
1) Agreed, and that's probably the first step. This, I think, would make it easy to fill menus, as you just look to see if a thing can be built where you're viewing. However, this might make slice-mode menus too full.
2) If I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about things like stairways, which as Prissi pointed out, need to be built one level at a time (and priced out as individual tiles), and I think that the graphics for that kind of extension should change if a compatible tile is adjacent one the same or an adjacent level.
3) Not sure what this one is. Are you saying we shouldn't be able to build right underneath an aboveground building? I think that would complicate both gameplay and code significantly.

I'd be happy with just 1 and 2 in slice mode or all underground-buildable views.

Offline greephus

  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2010, 11:59:03 AM »
Hi all,

I just have a simple question. I forgot how to build the entrance to the japan underpass pack. Could you please help me? Thanks

Offline DirrrtyDirk

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 1253
  • JR 700 Series Shinkansen
  • Languages: EN,DE
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2010, 12:32:19 PM »
IIRC it was all built via the ship menu - and there's a special tunnel for ships that builds the basic structure (hope we're talking about the same addon here)

Offline greephus

  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2010, 01:02:09 PM »
Thans for your answer!
I mean this one, pls see screenshot.
Unfortunately there is no tunnel option under shiptools.