The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Narrow Gauge  (Read 26593 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Narrow Gauge
« on: September 01, 2011, 12:55:05 PM »
As promised, I have added my work on narrow gauge trains to SVN.  I also decided to draw a few vehicles so it is possible to use the narrow gauge from now on.  



Included:
-one track type
-road crossings
-signals
-depot (placeholder)
-stations (placeholders)
-horses
-double fairlie loco
-passenger coach

No bridges as yet.

Known bug: clicking on a narrow gauge station causes crash.  Not sure why...

NB I have no plans to make this a priority, so you will have to be very patient for more!

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18493
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 01:22:21 PM »
This looks lovely! Can you upload your .blends somewhere (Github, perhaps) so that others can use them as a template? Also, the stations: are they exported from Blender in the normal way (i.e., rotate x4 with the same alignments as the vehicles, so that my automatic alignment modification of Zeno's export script can be used), or do they have different alignments? And are there any particular requirements of .dat files for them? I haven't produced station graphics previously, so don't know quite how it works with that type.

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4564
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 03:36:25 PM »
Known bug: clicking on a narrow gauge station causes crash.  Not sure why...
I guess the symbol for narrow gauge is missing:

http://www.simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?machine_translate_to_lang=&page=en_SymbolDef&no_bl=y#The_names_of_the_symbol_objects

ie a symbol with
Code: [Select]
name=NarrowgaugeStop

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 04:27:35 PM »
You're probably right - I'd forgotten about all those...

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 08:54:22 AM »
fixed - thanks Dwachs.

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 09:06:40 PM »
The Hood
A Big Thank on You that you have be build in the The Narrow Gauge in pak128.britain!
now Can i beginn to creat my own pakset!
In my pakset what i want too creat need i all waytyp´s what be give in Simutrans!

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Narrow Gauge mail
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 02:36:39 PM »
How about a mail coach, as well? Would there be a similar one for package goods well?



Code: [Select]
obj=vehicle
name=FRPostCoach(CC)
speed=80
copyright=James
#Arbitrary...
intro_year=1850
intro_month=1
waytype=narrowgauge_track
freight=Post
payload=20
length=7

weight=8
cost=10000
runningcost=2
sound=-1

can_lead_from_rear=0
bidirectional=1

min_loading_time=17
max_loading_time=47

EmptyImage[E]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.0
EmptyImage[SE]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.1
EmptyImage[S]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.2
EmptyImage[SW]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.3
EmptyImage[W]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.4
EmptyImage[NW]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.5
EmptyImage[N]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.6
EmptyImage[NE]=./images/fr-mail-coach.0.7

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 11:21:18 PM »
And a crossing:





Code: [Select]
obj=crossing
name=narrow-rail-crossing
waytype[0]=track
waytype[1]=narrowgauge_track
speed[0]=60
speed[1]=40
openimage[ns][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.1
closedimage[ns][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.1
openimage[ew][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.0
closedimage[ew][0]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.0.0
openimage[ns][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.1
closedimage[ns][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.1
openimage[ew][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.0
closedimage[ew][1]=images/narrow-rail-crossing.1.0

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18493
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 12:00:33 AM »
Added to the Experimental repository - thank you!

Offline alexbaettig

  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 05:53:02 AM »
I like this addition very much!
But I have a question about the crossing:
What will happen if there are a narrow and a normal train at the crossing at the same time. As I understand it narrow gauge is in the monorail slot. If the narrow train has the same behaviour as the monorails they will cross without stopping, won't they?

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4564
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 07:52:24 AM »
Afaict, if the crossing is taken by one train, the train on the other track will wait. Ofc one of the tracks take precedence over the other (the same as in road-track crossings).

Offline alexbaettig

  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 04:24:19 PM »
Aha, so that's OK. I have not yet come round to download the new version of the pak but I'm quite excited!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 06:22:58 PM »
Nice additions.  I was meaning to add something along those lines. Just a thought though - the snow image part of the standard gauge rails looks like the older version which has been replaced since?

Offline alexbaettig

  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 06:39:05 PM »
I now have managed to download the new version and have a look at it.
Maybe first some things could be put in from the "normal" graphics:
I suppose that the normal signals could be just copied to the narrow gauge…
What is also somethig which could be simply copied is the steam effect. It sort of looks akward seeing the steam locomotive moving without it!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 06:47:53 PM »
Steam effect should be in there - look at the screenshot in the first post...

Offline alexbaettig

  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 06:52:58 PM »
No there is no steam but signals which I did not see on the first look…

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »
Here's a .zip file with a small test add-on narrow gauge pak and the .dat files for the following, which makes these new little trains quite playable and, really, rather fun to run logging trains up into the forest...

  • wooden trestle
  • 2-ton bulk wagon
  • 2-ton goods wagon
  • 2-ton woods wagon

All the dat's are just copies of the existing standard-gauge ones using the existing graphics.  True, the trestle doesn't look quite right, and the carriages are a bit large; but these little trains running into the early 20th century fit quite well into the game play -- what do you think?

wlindley.com/images/simutrans/narrow-gauge-bits.zip

and a screenshot... For some reason, all the narrow-gauge trains "push back" a tile too far when reversing in the station?

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 03:10:44 PM by wlindley »

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18493
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 09:52:58 AM »
Hmm - I am afraid that I am a little sceptical about the idea of using standard gauge sized vehicles and bridges for narrow gauge: it really doesn't look right (and we can see in the screenshot that the locomotive is dwarfed by the wagons). My preference would be to wait until we have real graphics in narrow gauge size rather than use the standard gauge graphics and for them not to look right.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 05:24:27 PM »
I'd also rather wait for correctly sized graphics in the official releases and svn. However you have provided a download for those who can't wait, so that should keep everyone happy.

Offline AP

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2011, 05:53:27 PM »
Hi all. First time in an age I've had time to play Simutrans!  Just downloaded the new versions of standard (111.0) Pak.Britain (1.09), the new content is awesome!

Thought I should report one bug: I can't seem to get the flat-crossing of narrow and standard gauge lines to build, not sure if it was unincluded from 1.09? Obviously there are no bridges, so rivers are also a problem (but a known one I think!!).  Right, off to play some more!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2011, 08:59:21 PM »
AP, welcome back!  Wlindley's narrow gauge additions didn't make it in time for 1.09, but you can download here or wait for the next nightly pak.

Offline alexbaettig

  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Languages: DE, EN, FR
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2011, 09:04:58 PM »
slightly OT: Speaking of the next nightly: Wernieman said in the German forum that there was nothing new which would cause a new nightly… But there should be, shouldn't it? At least the stuff from this thread…

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9433
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2011, 09:36:04 PM »
The last submit was on oct 31 by me according to svn ...

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2011, 09:54:39 PM »
Oh yes now I remember - I was waiting for wlindley to re-do the crossing images to use the new standard gauge snow images.

Offline AP

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2011, 10:23:48 PM »
Just been playing with the narrow gauge on the server game. It works really well. The balancing is favourable (ie about right) - it's quite easy to set up a profitable albeit slow route serving small communities - exactly as narrow gauge in the UK was used. What I found harder, however, was 're-gauging', once traffic levels rose sufficiently, since obvously that involved lifting all the track and putting standard gauge track down on the same route. But we can't have everything!

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18493
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2011, 11:51:22 PM »
The difficulties with re-gauging seem to be realistic in principle, although it is of note that none of the UK narrow gauge lines were, as far as I am aware, ever upgraded to standard gauge; narrow gauge seems to have been used solely in those remote communities that were never going to generate enough traffic to justify standard gauge in the first place.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2011, 06:11:27 PM »
Just been playing with the narrow gauge on the server game. It works really well. The balancing is favourable (ie about right) - it's quite easy to set up a profitable albeit slow route serving small communities - exactly as narrow gauge in the UK was used. What I found harder, however, was 're-gauging', once traffic levels rose sufficiently, since obvously that involved lifting all the track and putting standard gauge track down on the same route. But we can't have everything!

Wow.  Not bad for a complete guess at the finance numbers!  Thanks for the feedback.

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2011, 07:50:14 PM »
The photo from the crossing between Standart gauge and narrow gauge looks good out.

Offline AP

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2011, 10:58:07 PM »
Wow.  Not bad for a complete guess at the finance numbers!  Thanks for the feedback.

To elaborate - the construction costs are lower than standard gauge, but not enormously so, however the costs of rolling stock and maintenance/running costs of both rolling stock and permanent way are far more manageable in the longer term, reflecting lines which were used at slower speeds / less smooth rides, and with lower tech carriages/etc, I guess. As one who favours rail over road, I'll be using it instead of bus routes quite a lot I think! It may be that when fine tuning is done we think it's too generous, or track isn't cheap enough, of course...

The one (acknowledged) omission which makes using it rather awkward at present is the lack of bridges - even one would help (a wooden one maybe, noting the low locomotive speed). I ended up demolishing rivers, which isn't ideal... I know NG is a low priority, but I'd suggest a bridge be high on the to do list! :)

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9433
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2011, 11:20:51 PM »
One can also limit lenght ot lets say 2 tiles to have only short bridges ...

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2011, 11:41:15 PM »
Some of the most spectacular wooden trestles in America are on narrow-gauge railways, is the same true of England?

I'll see what I can do about a wooden bridge or two...

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18493
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2011, 12:30:12 AM »
Any bridges for either gauge would be much appreciated!

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2011, 02:25:43 PM »
Oh yes now I remember - I was waiting for wlindley to re-do the crossing images to use the new standard gauge snow images.

Hmm... the wooden_sleeper_steel_rail_snow.png that I used, is the one currently in svn revision 622... what newer image is there?

Edited the wooden trestles down a bit:


http://www.wlindley.com/images/simutrans/wooden-trestle-narrow.dat

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2011, 09:55:17 PM »
The rail tracks all now use the generic rail-snow.png (I never removed the older images from SVN).

The bridge looks great - any chance for a snowy version too?

Offline wlindley us

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 960
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Narrow Gauge
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2011, 12:25:11 PM »
Ha, I guess I could have read the .dat's (*rolls eyes*)



and gimp source here

yes, that looks much better, doesn't it.