The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Underground Trains  (Read 68024 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2012, 08:53:07 PM »
Lovely!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2012, 09:20:28 PM »
And the 1959 stock - only one livery used (with any longevity) as far as I know.


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2012, 10:06:06 PM »
I do like that one.

Offline kierongreen

  • Dev Team, Coder/patcher
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2269
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2012, 01:14:30 AM »
Quote
while you're here - you wouldn't mind uploading your Metropolitan locomotive/carriage and District unit .blends, would you, so that I can adapt them to make some earlier Metropolitan vehicles?
At present no, laptop I did renders on is almost totally kaput. I though (hoped?) I'd got everything sent to The Hood before :s

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2012, 01:28:31 AM »
Ahh, no, alas, he didn't have the Underground stock, from what I understand.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2012, 10:34:35 PM »
Here's the 1938 tube stock. I've also done versions for the BR Class 483 (NSE and the current heritage livery with yellow warning panels) which were refurbished from the 1938 stock in 1989 and are still running on the Isle fo Whight. Before anyone shouts about inaccuracies, I know the 483s only run in two car units but I intend to allow trailers to be converted too to allow longer trains. In experimental, these should probably represent an upgrade but also bear in mind the 483 version is third rail only while the tube originals were 4th rail operated.



As for london underground blends, I don't have these - thankfully I have most of the others though.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2012, 11:06:30 PM »
Splendid!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2012, 02:08:07 PM »
1940 Waterloo and city stock - in Southern green, BR Blue and NSE liveries:


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2012, 02:27:53 PM »
Very nice!

Offline ercsim

  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2012, 09:25:29 AM »
where can I get the underground trains and tracks?

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2012, 10:23:09 PM »
@Ercsim - tracks and stations are in SVN so should be available in the latest nightly. The trains are currently still in development - currently not 100% aligned properly or balanced, or with correct in game properties. I plan on uploading the tube trains once I have done the full tube timeline and balanced them. That means I will need to do 1914 stock, 1906 Gate stock, 1903 stock, 1900 stock and loco, 1890 stock and loco.

Next step of progress however is the 1923 "standard" stock which comes in the original red and cream as well as a slightly later all red livery (not sure on exact dates). Remarkably, these trains remained in use until 1990 as they were bought by BR in 1967 and converted to third rail for use on the Isle of Wight (like the 1938 stock which replaced them). In this guise as the class 485/486, I have drawn them in BR Blue, Blue-Grey and NSE liveries.


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2012, 11:59:32 PM »
Wonderful! I think that I remember travelling on one of these on the Isle of Wight as a child, although they were in the process of being replaced by the 1938 stock at the time, I think.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2012, 06:59:02 PM »
Going further back in time, the Watford Joint Stock:



Things get a bit hard to find the information on the internet for these old trains but as far as I can tell these were ordered in 1914 but not delivered until 1920 because of World War I. They are also very similar to 1914 and 1915 stock used on the tube (which did enter service from 1914 on), but these stocks were only motor cars and were used with older trailer cars. For standard at least I intend these to be available from 1914 onwards. 

The other problem (from my point) of view is liveries. I gather the joint stock was painted in LNWR livery - hence the brown and cream. I have no idea what other liveries they ever got painted in, or what the 1914 and 1915 stock were in - black and white photos don't give much away and there are very few of them anyway! Same goes for the older stocks I am planning on doing, so if anyone knows anything about this, let me know!

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2012, 08:21:32 PM »
Looking lovely!

There is some information here about the livery of motor cars from 1903 used on the Central London, to replace the earlier locomotives. The City & South London Railway livery is well known, as examples of both locomotive and carriages are preserved.

It seems that some of the early stock was painted a dark maroon livery: see here. This coincides with my recollection of the colour in which the models of the very old stock at the London Transport Museum are painted.

There is some fairly good information on Wikipedia generally about older stock, which I imagine that you have probably found by now, but not much other than the above on liveries, which would have varied as between the different companies.

However, by about 1907, most of the Underground companies were under joint ownership, and would have had similar liveries to each other - probably the two-tone colours for the Central London and the dark maroon for the Yerkes group would be my guess. The LNWR livery for the joint stock is correct.

Incidentally, you might gather more information from a visit to the next Acton depot open day, which is on the week-end of the 10th and 11th of March this year.

Edit: Not entirely sure about the dark red/maroon, actually, as the photograph appears to show a "London Transport" logo (and that colour, I think, was used by LT for non-passenger stock). Perhaps go with the earliest livery of the Standard stock for the earlier vehicles for the time being? It seems to fit that drawing of the Central London Railway and the black and white photographs showing Underground trains of the time to be painted in a two-tone livery with the higher parts of the carriages being in a lighter shade than the lower parts.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:03:57 PM by jamespetts »

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2012, 10:04:26 PM »
Thanks. From what I can tell I there were two liveries on the Yerkes lines - maroon and two tone red and cream. Central London Railway seemed to be two-tone throughout. City & south London Railway is easier - wooden with yellow locos. Any more advice still welcome!

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2012, 10:19:04 PM »
There seems to have been a red/maroon GWR 57xx and London Underground livery for BR Mk.I/II carriages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gztWyrfYBvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWLHJdD2fKk

all black and white, unfortunately.
http://www.bluebell-railway-museum.co.uk/archive/photos/jjs/underground.htm

incidentally, have you found this site?: http://districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Trains&action=display&thread=18285
I'm looking through it myself currently.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2012, 10:29:44 PM »
The Underground liveried Mk. Is and IIs were never used in service in that livery - they are, I think, support vehicles for heritage railtours, purchased from the mainline railways in recent years for that specific purpose.

The LT pannier tanks, however, were real: they were bought from the GWR for shunting and freight operations, and remained in use until 1971 - three years after the end of steam on British Railways.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2012, 11:35:31 PM »
Good research! The one that is red including the roof is 1938 stock (personally, I prefer the grey roof); the Standard stock is in the two tone livery already used, as above.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2012, 09:43:08 PM »
Finally, some new ones to show off. Yerkes lines tube stock from 1906-1920:

-bottom pair: original 1906 gate-end stock
-middle pair: 1914 stock driving vehicles with 1906 gate-end stock
-top pair: 1906 stock converted to air-door operation (1920) - this is really an upgrade to the 1906 stock but the trailers are similar enough to 1920 stock so I won't draw those.


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2012, 10:05:30 PM »
Splendid!

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2012, 10:28:28 PM »
Cool the New modells from the Underground trains.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2012, 10:27:42 PM »
Edging further back in time, we now have the Central London Railway stock (from top to bottom):
-Original 1900 stock with electric loco
-Original 1900 stock with 1903 Driving EMU cars on each end
-Original 1900 stock with 1915 Driving EMU cars on each end


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2012, 11:57:45 PM »
Gosh. Most impressive, and impressively comprehensive!

Offline Milko

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 828
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2012, 08:15:22 AM »
Hello The Hood

Beautiful, also realized in a short time. A great job.

Giuseppe

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2012, 10:20:35 PM »
Another small addition - Waterloo & City original stock from 1898.


Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2012, 11:03:37 PM »
I'm running out of adjectives of praise...

Offline waerth

  • *
  • Posts: 145
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #98 on: March 18, 2012, 03:51:30 PM »
I will overdo you James:

May all gods, deities and spirits ever having been worshipped by humankind bless the Hood!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #99 on: March 18, 2012, 08:50:27 PM »
I will overdo you James:

May all gods, deities and spirits ever having been worshipped by humankind bless the Hood!


OK, calm down, it's just some pixels on a screen at the end of the day... :)

Here's the oldest tube train, the 1890 City & South London Railway locomotive and "padded cell" carriages:



Now it's time to balance these before adding them to SVN.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18374
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2012, 09:46:16 PM »
Ahh, splendid! I have some data on the C&SLR locomotives from the Acton Depot open day: see here. I'm not sure whether you already had that from a different source, but better have too much than not enough!

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2012, 10:09:01 PM »
That's very useful. I've just wasted the last hour trying to find technical data for them all, and I can find speed data for modern tube stock no problem but I can't find any power data whatsoever (not even for the current stock!). Any leads are therefore very useful.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #102 on: March 18, 2012, 10:40:07 PM »
you could probably work it backwards if you load them in experimental, adding just enough power to get them to hit their top speed in the configuration they would have been in.


My guess: At most, you might be looking at 400hp per motor car for the 2009 stock. And I think even that is quite generous.

Three points lead me to believe they don't have very high power per motor car.
- Most of the sets seem to have 2:1 or 1:1 ratio of motor to trailer cars. Meaning lots of weaker motors.
- The carriages are fairly light.
- They have a fairly low top speed.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 10:46:42 PM by ӔO »

Offline Ashley

  • Coder/Patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1288
    • entropy.me.uk
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2012, 11:48:52 AM »
You've done a great job with these, a very comprehensive set indeed! I'm looking forward to having them to play with.

Offline The Hood

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2889
  • pak128.Britain developer
Re: Underground Trains
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2012, 09:21:51 PM »
Thanks. Unfortunately this release seems to have gone the way of most tube upgrades and is running behind schedule. I've now got or guessed data for all of the units and sorted the days out to give correct configurations but I still need to do power and cost balancing...