Creation of dat of engines

[Václav]

I know that engines (diesel, electric, ...) have dat like all other objects ... I tried to search in SVNs - but I did not find anything.

So I would like to know how to set another engines.

I only know that there is set name of engine and way constraint (if needed) - but not not how and nothing more.

[Dwachs]

The dat-structure for engines is the same as for wagons. You can use 'waytype' as usual etc.

Supported engine types are "diesel", "electric", "steam",  "bio", "sail","fuel_cell","hydrogene", "battery","unknown", with diesel being default value. I do not know whether there is any in-game logic connected with engine type (with electric being an exception).

[Václav]

The dat-structure for engines is the same as for wagons. You can use 'waytype' as usual etc.

I need to know names of all parameters that must be used, and that may be used.

I can only think that it may be for example:

Code Select Expand


obj=engine
name=solar

but: is needed to use something more?

Supported engine types are "diesel", "electric", "steam",  "bio", "sail","fuel_cell","hydrogene", "battery","unknown", with diesel being default value. I do not know whether there is any in-game logic connected with engine type (with electric being an exception).

diesel, electric and steam - clear (there is needed to explain)
bio - probably thought for animals
sail - here I am a little confused - I don't know base - clear that it is for ships - is it for wind powered ships? (waytype=water?)
fuel_cell, hydrogene, battery - is there difference (excepting name)?
unknown - let UFO live  (I really don't know what to think about this engine)

[The Hood]

engine types are not separate objects but a line within a vehicle object. You can only use the values Dwachs said. I suppose if you are not using one type throughout a whole pakset (e.g. fuel_cell) and wanted another type (e.g. solar) you could code as fuel_cell and use a translation.

[Václav]

It means I will have to set engine like diesel - while running costs will be extremely low (new generation of engines  ).

[Dwachs]

Only engine type 'electric' has any in-game meaning. You can specify whatever value, if the value is not known then engine type is set to diesel. The engine type is only shown in the depot window.

[VS]

Returning to original semi-request: It might be nice to have some more values here... Dieselelectric, compressed air, accumulation (fireless) etc. Some of these (exotic) types would be nice for narrow gauge. Even the term "diesel" is somewhat broad, when talking about road transport (diesel or gasoline?). Let's not forget CNG & LNG, too... Same for "steam" - single expansion, compound, multiple expansion... Even steam and gas turbines. For airplanes, "diesel" is rather useless again... one would hope to see distinction between inline and radial engines, and turboprop, turbojet and turbofan.

Of course, the list is somewhat exhaustive... But there are only 8 of 255 slots used

[Ters]

Considering engine type means nothing, except for electrification, having more of them seems rather pointless to me. There would have to be some role for them to play, like a distinct type for third rail electrification, or limited range for accumulator engines. The latter holds potential for steepening then learning curve even more.

[wlindley]

The Wiki has some excellent detail. 

However it seems impossible to add information, by registering a new login, since the "contact" page does not exist.  Very frustrating.

[Václav]

Returning to original semi-request: It might be nice to have some more values here... Dieselelectric, compressed air, accumulation (fireless) etc. Some of these (exotic) types would be nice for narrow gauge. Even the term "diesel" is somewhat broad, when talking about road transport (diesel or gasoline?). Let's not forget CNG & LNG, too... Same for "steam" - single expansion, compound, multiple expansion... Even steam and gas turbines. For airplanes, "diesel" is rather useless again... one would hope to see distinction between inline and radial engines, and turboprop, turbojet and turbofan.

Of course, the list is somewhat exhaustive... But there are only 8 of 255 slots used

I think that most people don't make difference between various steam engines - but most people may make difference between diesel engines (diesel-electric, diesel-hydraulic, diesel-mechanic) and of course, most people probably make difference between electric (DC 3kV, AC 25kV/50Hz ...and so on). And of course, inside group of electric engines may be solar - that is way of electric engine.

I think that engines may have few basic groups ... and inside these groups there may be a lot of types. Like in case of goods. But there would be needed to give them (engines groups) meanful names.

But gas turbines are way of diesel engine - more than steam. Because there was used electric transfer of power from turbine to wheels. But I am not engineer of engines.

[Ters]

I think most people would probably notice that a steam engine is a steam engine, but otherwise wouldn't care. You might be thinking of a specific subgroup of people.

I'm a bit more interested in technology than the average person, and with real world locomotives, I find it facinating how many different ways there are to get locomotives moving. But in Simutrans, all I need to know about the engine type is whether it needs overhead wires. All other trivia, I can find on Wikipedia.

[VS]

You might be thinking of a specific subgroup of people.

Yup, that's the core of this "problem"... (is it much of a problem anyway?)

Personally, I have no special need for new types But it feels like an unpolished corner, when you see that planes are all "diesel".

[Václav]

Personally, I have no special need for new types

But it feels like an unpolished corner, when you see that planes are all "diesel".

new types (and mostly types groups) would be good if there would be set reliability - because some engines clearly have higher reliability than others. For example diesel-electric is more reliable than other two types (diesel-mechanic and diesel-hydraulic) and also with this type trains may achieve higher speed. Generally still it is diesel and in this way it could be done.

Inside depot could be shown only type group, not exact type. And by the way, in the matter of course, I don't want too many engines that are different to each other (for example) in way that one electromotor turns clockward - and other counterclockward.

I want only to bring few more basic (but based on real world) engines - like for example solar, or to divorce diesels into four basic types (diesel-mechanic, diesel-hydraulic, diesel-electric - and gas turbine), for example ... and to eliminate two a bit strange types (fuel cell and fusion).

Fuel cells are already being constructed ... but not fusion. Today there is available only fission (such a small linguistic difference).

In this way it is really strange that all planes are diesel typed, like you say, VS.

[Ters]

Jet planes saying they are diesel powered are a bit strange, so we could need jet or gas turbine as engine type.

new types (and mostly types groups) would be good if there would be set reliability

But since there is no reliability, or anything else depending on engine type beyond electrification, it serves no point. It's just a piece of information players must learn not to pay attention to.

[Václav]

Jet planes saying they are diesel powered are a bit strange, so we could need jet or gas turbine as engine type.

Yes. It is strange. Only few propeller planes can be described like diesel engine powered. Other, it is really strange.

It's just a piece of information players must learn not to pay attention to.

Yes - but anyway useful for more real game.

[Dwachs]

The Wiki has some excellent detail. 

However it seems impossible to add information, by registering a new login, since the "contact" page does not exist.  Very frustrating.

You can create a new account there. Button 'Registrieren' or whatever language the button text is in.

[An_dz]

Vehicle types should go to a more wide and generic type.
I think "combustion, electric, nuclear, wind, bio" is enough for any engine type.

OR

Make electric fixed for use with electric wires and let the creator use any other value in engine_type that then could be translated.
But this would just include more things to translate for useless info, I prefer first option.

Edit: Thinking again this won't be so bad, since creators will tend to write the correct engine type in the vehicle name.

[Václav]

Vehicle types should go to a more wide and generic type.
I think "combustion, electric, nuclear, wind, bio" is enough for any engine type.

This would be good.

Combustion allows steam, diesels (and its power transfer types - diesel-electric, diesel-mechanic and diesel-hydraulic), turbines and propellers.
Electric allows overhead wires, third (and fourth) rail, batteries and solar.
Nuclear allows fission and fusion.
Wind and bio are clear in meaning.

This may lead to a bit more flexible creation of engines as they would be needed in paksets - and may be also better way constraints. But still there is issue of parallel electrifications on the same tile (overhead - and third/fourth rail) - and parallel engines at all.

Edit: Thinking again this won't be so bad, since creators will tend to write the correct engine type in the vehicle name.

I don't think giving engine type into name of vehicle would be good at all cases. Sometimes it would lead to too long names of vehicles - and too long file names. You can find example of this in queue of vehicles of Pak128.CZ. There are some electric locomotives with description of currencies needed for those locomotives.

[Ters]

Vehicle types should go to a more wide and generic type.
I think "combustion, electric, nuclear, wind, bio" is enough for any engine type.

I like this suggestion. Battery, compressed air and fireless steam engines don't fit, but Simutrans doesn't really support such short range vehicles anyway.

When I think about it, "bio" is an ambiguous term here. While I suppose it's meant for vehicles like horses and oxen, it could also be mistaken as meaning vehicles running on biofuels.

[prissi]

Diesel is just short in simutrans for internal combustion engine. This certainly describes early planes. Gas turbine is the only thing really missing (although only few ships/trains/cars were driven by gas turbines.)

[Václav]

Gas turbine is the only thing really missing (although only few ships/trains/cars were driven by gas turbines.)

If I am not wrong, no commercially produced car had gas turbine. Also I don't know about any ship with gas turbine. But I know about many trains with gas turbine.

Most diesel locomotives in USA and also in Europe (including former Czechoslovakia) had gas turbine. It can give extra power but in trains is not reliable and is a very faulty. For this reason it is not used.

[greenling]

Hello
In germany have gave vehicles with gas turbine but the railway company was not able properly to keep the gas turbine.

[Ters]

I recently read that turbine powered cars are about to make a reappearance thanks to hybrid technology. It remains to be seen if that will become more than a fad.

Ships powered by gas turbines exist. I think I've even travelled with a high speed ferry powered by such. Gas turbines might be more common in naval vessels than in the private sector, and more common in ferries than freight ships.

[ӔO]

I like the idea of having even more types of engines. but how many should be included?
Off the top of my head...


Reciprocating Internal Combustion Engine types
Diesel mechanical -  Most common. Found on virtually any type of vehicle.
Diesel hydraulic - Used in some cars and locomotives, mostly popular in Germany.
Gasoline - Mostly for cars and motorbikes
LPG/CNG - Some buses, trucks and ships

Gas turbine ICE type
Turbojet -  Typically not used on commercial vehicles. One exception is the Concorde
Turboprop -  Popular choice for regional propeller aircraft
Turbofan -  Most common on commercial jet aircraft


Hybrid type
Diesel DC electric -  Used in early diesel electric locomotives
Diesel AC electric -  Used in recent diesel electric locomotives and ships
Turbo electric -  Either gas or steam, mainly locomotives and ships
Hybrid electric -  HEV, mainly cars, but also some trucks and buses.

Steam type
Steam engine -  Locomotives and ships
Steam turbine -  Some locomotives and ships, but mainly for grid power generation


Electrical type
Electro-mechanical -  AC, DC and VFD/VVVF. where motors are used to create movement.
Electromagnetic -  Maglev, where magnets are used to create movement

Other types
Hydrogen fuel cell -  Strictly speaking, not too different from electro-mechanical.
Cable -  Mostly for transportation of pax or goods in mountainous areas. An example is San Francisco cable cars.

[Václav]

Diesel mechanical -  Most common. Found on virtually any type of vehicle.

Mostly cars, sometimes also in trains - mostly in passenger standalone cars

Diesel hydraulic - Used in some cars and locomotives, mostly popular in Germany.

Also in passenger cars.

(produced in Czech republic)

(produced in Germany - but developed in Czech republic)

Diesel DC electric -  Used in early diesel electric locomotives
Diesel AC electric -  Used in recent diesel electric locomotives and ships

In case of trains, not only locomotives - but also passenger cars.

Electro-mechanical -  AC, DC and VFD/VVVF. where motors are used to create movement.

I know meaning of AC and DC - but I would like to know meaning of VFD/VVVF.

[greenling]

VaclavMacurek
The Regioshuttel it a very interesting vehicle.
In the near who live, have i be view 5 railway company there use those vehicles.

[ӔO]

From my understanding, VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) or VVVF (Variable Voltage, Variable Frequency) is a means of accepting an electrical input and transmitting the desired power to the motors. Which means, depending on model, the train can run on any electrified line, AC or DC, as long as it can collect it.

It is similar to how Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) works.

I don't have a good understanding of electricity, so that is how I assume it works.

[Václav]

From my understanding, VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) or VVVF (Variable Voltage, Variable Frequency) is a means of accepting an electrical input and transmitting the desired power to the motors. Which means, depending on model, the train can run on any electrified line, AC or DC, as long as it can collect it.

From this explaining of those abbreviations it is clear. There are in service some such locomotives and one or two EMUs in my country.

Mostly such trains and locomotives can go under two powers. Three or more powers engines are rare.

[prissi]

There were gas turbine diesel engine. Most were some high speed trains, "Trubo Train" in Canada, TEE Br602, Prototypen von APT/HST und TGV).

The only heavy freight type built in more than two engines were the Union Pacific GTELs.

Trucks with turbines were never built (unless you count the wankel engines as turbine) and the only ships with gas turbines (apart from military ones) was the fastest conventional ferry ever, the Finnjet (which is now retired due to excessive fuel costs), HSS catamarans (also the fastest in their size), hydrofoils, and the hovercraft were powered also by gas turbines. There were four container ships, which were retired in 1982, again due to excessive fuel prices.

[ӔO]

Some other types I've remembered.

Combined cycle - Similar to ICE + low pressure turbo that improves efficiency.
coal gas/wood gas - Instead of boiling water, like in a steam engine, a gassifier is used to allow use of wood and coal as a fuel source for normal ICE


I think the turbine diesels were an interesting development. It's roots are very similar to hydro-mechanical, like BR Class 35 Hymek, JNR DD54 and DB Class V 160, where a high power engine in a light package was needed on unelectrified lines. Honourable mention,  Napier Deltic.

I like the ingenuity, and rather bonkers idea, of using engines designed for something much larger in something the size of a locomotive.

These days, everyone just sticks to diesel-electric with turbocharger, since turbos and AC motors have improved vastly since the 80's.