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Bridges

Started by The Hood, December 10, 2011, 10:31:24 AM

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AP

So I was playing recently with the elevated ways. Irritated at a big valley which needed crossing on the skew, I stacked up the diagonal elevated ways pont-du-gard style, resulting in a nice 5-high diagonal viaduct, very functional but a bit ugly. I then discovered that you can demolish the lower tiers, leaving just the upper tier looking more 'normal', albeit floating on air.

So I now wonder, is there any way we could have the bridge piers buildable in-game?. Probably at low cost, to allow us to tidy up such construction visually? Curved viaducts look really good in-game and are rather useful.


ӔO

Quote from: AP on January 31, 2012, 02:28:21 PM
So I was playing recently with the elevated ways. Irritated at a big valley which needed crossing on the skew, I stacked up the diagonal elevated ways pont-du-gard style, resulting in a nice 5-high diagonal viaduct, very functional but a bit ugly. I then discovered that you can demolish the lower tiers, leaving just the upper tier looking more 'normal', albeit floating on air.

So I now wonder, is there any way we could have the bridge piers buildable in-game?. Probably at low cost, to allow us to tidy up such construction visually? Curved viaducts look really good in-game and are rather useful.


on the japanese simutrans site,( http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Addon128%2FRoadTools%201 ) there is a set of elevated roads with just the pillars, which is for stacking.
it should be possible to do that with the elevated ways I drew, since the pillars are full height.
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The Hood

Sounds like a good idea - minimal cost and maintenance and 0 speed to prevent trains running on them.

Fabio

Quote from: fabio on March 24, 2012, 12:01:20 AM
Here's a very interesting reading about bridge types. I wanted to share it, although many of these types are not possible / not nice with the current bridges code.

http://pghbridges.com/basics.htm

AP

Nice page, there are so many different trusses it's astonishing (they forgot the very useful Vierendeel truss, for instance.

The Hood

Bridge costs are now updated in SVN to more closely match the rail bridge costs. Do comment as necessary...

AP

Quote from: The Hood on February 03, 2012, 10:05:58 PM
Sounds like a good idea - minimal cost and maintenance and 0 speed to prevent trains running on them.
Yes, that sounds excellent.

ӔO

for the april 2nd nightly build
balance seems to be okay.

just 3 things I've noticed
steel truss railway bridge, "pillar_asymmetric=1" might be missing. Right now, the pillars from one side are too long.
iron lattice girder rail bridge, might be better with "pillar_distance=1" instead of 2.
concrete railway viaduct 225 might be in there twice.

otherwise, excellent work
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various projects rolled up: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111233/Roll_up.rar

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jamespetts

I am just beginning the process of integrating all of these into Experimental, and I have noticed that we appear to be missing the concrete elevated way, which is quite important in modern cities. Are there any plans to add this?
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The Hood

Yes - I haven't done any more elevated ways yet - just bridges (see the to-do list)

The Hood

Time for some elevated ways. First up, an elevated way version of the wooden trestle rail bridge. I also took the opportunity to do better snow graphics for all wooden trestle rail bridges as shown in the second image:





jamespetts

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AP

Quote from: The Hood on January 05, 2013, 10:22:08 PM

Love this image!  ;D

(wish we could get the piers to taper though...)

Edit: 3rd pier (counting from Left) - base seems too low. Graphical glitch? 2nd and 3rd pier should be the same length, no?

greenling

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ӔO

Quote from: AP on January 05, 2013, 11:18:05 PM
Love this image!  ;D

(wish we could get the piers to taper though...)

Edit: 3rd pier (counting from Left) - base seems too low. Graphical glitch? 2nd and 3rd pier should be the same length, no?

probably needs a line

I think it was pillar_asymmetrical=1
My Sketchup open project sources
various projects rolled up: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111233/Roll_up.rar

Colour safe chart:

The Hood

@AEO - it already has that line. There are a few glitches in the bridge code I think. It's not the only bridge where you can see this, especially after rotation.

Anyway, here's some concrete rail elevated ways. The keen-eyed among you will spot two subtly different types with different speeds...


jamespetts

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ӔO

My Sketchup open project sources
various projects rolled up: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111233/Roll_up.rar

Colour safe chart:

AP

Nice indeed. :-) A bit too squaky clean, however, from my knowledge of pre-stressed concrete structures! Could they be painted so the grass underneath them goes brown?

Bear789

Looks good. However, that kind of full pillar will cause graphic problems when crossing diagonal ways on the ground. May I suggest to use a different kind of pillar, like the one used by Pak 64 elevated ways?
Like this ones: http://graphics.simutrans.com/displayimage.php?album=124&pos=11

AP

Actually, if the piers remain linear, can they have an arch through them? So when you double stack elevated ways, or build them along a road, the cars don't drive through the piers? Same goes for brick arches piers, they need transverse arches through the piers.

I keep seeing in game when a railway viaduct has been build directly along a road, it looks very wierd...

The Hood

I did consider that. Part of the problem is the bridge deck is narrower than the road. If you think it would look better with piers strutting out from the deck to make the arch that would work for the concrete ones, and for a steel/iron one I'm planning. However I don't think we have space for the transverse arches in brick pillars: in other words it's not the right type to use in that situation. And I've not seen too many of those either...

AP

Yeah, having googled some more, its not done often in masonry, because there's little point (unless there's something underneath...) and you can't make vastly wide openings, the Ouse viaduct has some of the best relieving arches I've seen - you could drive a bus through them if you were so inclined... (and had extended them to ground...), but i guess not a 2-way road.






Another example where it was done; Viaducto de los Quince Ojos (although that uses concrete, not true arches). You could get a road through them, though.

greenling

AP
Your Photo looks very gerat out.
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The Hood

I've been thinking about this. I agree we need some elevated ways that look good when over the top of ground level ways. However I think the brick elevated ways should remain as they are - at least for rail - given how many of this type we have around in Britain and how few vaulted/cross-arched viaducts we have. I intend to draw an iron elevated way which will have four pillars on tile corners and I will redraw the concrete ones similarly - here's a quick preview (I've only done that one tile and not done any post-processing on the render) - does this work for you?


greenling

Woh
The new rail it the hammer. :o
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
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Working on a big Problem!

AP

Looks good to me.

Can we have a steel version also (e.g. like the Liverpool Overhead Railway) to fill the 19th-century gap before mass concrete structures?

Regarding brick viaducts, if arches are not being added (fair enough) is there a way to prohibit the building of such a bridge along a road (only perpendicular to it)? I know level-crossings are orientation-sensitive, for instance...

The Hood

Unfortunately there is no way of the game knowing where pillars are at the minute, but I do plan on adding an iron/steel structure which will span roads sensibly. Now I've redone the High Speed tracks I will get producing some more elevated ways. I think doing it as a massive GIMP project and using kierongreen's updated and nicely aligned tracks will be the way forward rather than blender, for consistency. This will mean editing the existing brick elevated way quite substantially first however...

jamespetts

That seems to work for when there is a way underneath - pity that the game can't distinguish at present.
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Bear789

That concrete el looks great.

kierongreen

A great pity I think could be fixed with an entry in the dat. I'll add it to my list of things to do when/if I get time!

The Hood

Latest progress - a range of arched elevated ways created from the existing one with a lot of fiddling around in the GIMP, and combining with kierongreen's new way graphics for extra consistency and perfect alignment of tracks :) I will do bridge versions for each to ensure graphical consistency - the pale on the top to replace the existing masonry bridge and the dark in the middle to replace the existing early brick viaduct.

Now the process is set up it's quite easy to recolour and change brick/track combinations. I intend to do something similar to create the concrete ways consistently.


jamespetts

Very nice! Any plan to do something similar with aqueducts?
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greenling

The Hood
The new bridge looks very good out.
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
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The Hood

Quote from: jamespetts on January 14, 2013, 09:42:47 PM
Very nice! Any plan to do something similar with aqueducts?

Not really - thought you were looking into doing those as part of your big canal project. I can send you the xcf file so you can see the method and use it if you like. In any case I don't see the same need for canal elevated ways - perhaps one or two but shouldn't need a range of speeds in the same way as rail.