News:

Simutrans Forum Archive
A complete record of the old Simutrans Forum.

Tracks replacement project for pak 128

Started by Fabio, February 14, 2009, 03:24:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Fabio

Well, there are still many to do ;)
Trusses don't look good on elevated, so I reserve them to 100 and 120 km/h (probably reusing existing ones). 60 and 80 km/h will be trestle or beam (still without elevated).
High speed (280+ km/h) will be box girder bridges, pretty much like motorways ones (and I plan to adapt to a certain extent existing motorway bridges). These will look good as elevated, too.

VS


My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Fabio

#177
A new screenshot:



This is a preview of 400 km/h bridge and elevated.

You can see as well the ballast replaced with a concrete railbed as suggested above.

EDIT: As you can see the electrification poles look awful.
I have two options:
1) lower the safety wall
2) plan newer (and future) electrification (for this speed as well as for other) to have poles on the far side of the tracks.
Your thoughts?

mEGa

I saw that distance between ground and elevated way is very short. It' s look fine and realistic. But what did you planned when another ways pass below ? Another version of  this sea bridge ?
Current projects in progress : improvements of few designed french paks

Fabio

It's an optical effect due to the fact that the pillar is rather centered:



Ok, probably it's still some 4 px too low, but the clearance is not that bad after all.

And what do you think about the electrification poles?

Lmallet

Quote from: fabio on February 13, 2012, 05:03:12 PM
This is a preview of 400 km/h bridge and elevated.

You can see as well the ballast replaced with a concrete railbed as suggested above.

EDIT: As you can see the electrification poles look awful.
I have two options:
1) lower the safety wall
2) plan newer (and future) electrification (for this speed as well as for other) to have poles on the far side of the tracks.
Your thoughts?

I take it stations will have to be redrawn as well?

Václav

Electrification poles, themselves, look good - but more important will be all crossings. There position of electrification poles will be more important - because in previous (currently default) version they are not well positioned. But I can only think if it is caused by wrong dat or not - and I am almost sure that it is only in dat file.

And minor suggestion for sound-proof walls for bridges - what about such (very simple) one?

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

sdog

That is more likely a wind protection wall, winds at bridges can be quite dangerous to lorries.


Fabio, if you want to make catenary for different speed visually different, the main way to do so would be reducing the spacing between poles. The higher the speed gets, the close poles have to be spaced, for a long time catenary was the limiting factor for the possible speed on a high speed lines.

Václav

Quote from: sdog on February 13, 2012, 06:56:50 PM
That is more likely a wind protection wall, winds at bridges can be quite dangerous to lorries.
May it be - too.
Photo of D1 highway bridge over Sázava (river).
Here it is wind-barrier.


But here it is sound-proof wall.


Quote
Fabio, if you want to make catenary for different speed visually different, the main way to do so would be reducing the spacing between poles. The higher the speed gets, the close poles have to be spaced, for a long time catenary was the limiting factor for the possible speed on a high speed lines.
Closer electrification poles may be interesting idea but I don't think that it is really good one. So I would like to suggest more shapes for poles.

For example you can have simple bridge poles


... curved bridge poles, curved single poles


or classical single poles


that can be on one side or on both sides in some distance along track - so on even kilometers they may be on the left, and on odd kilometers they may be on the right.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

VS

I think the walls are a bit too monotonous...? Maybe only part of these could be player colour, which would allow more texture.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Václav

Do you think those my ones?
I know. Shape could be changed, of course.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Bughu Baas

Quote from: VaclavMacurek on February 13, 2012, 07:36:49 PM
... curved bridge poles, curved single poles

A little OT question here: Where was this photo taken? I never saw anything like that before...

ӔO

Quote from: Bughu Baas on February 13, 2012, 08:31:53 PM
A little OT question here: Where was this photo taken? I never saw anything like that before...

It looks like czech republic. I think I've seen that colour scheme there before.
but where exactly, I'm not sure.
My Sketchup open project sources
various projects rolled up: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17111233/Roll_up.rar

Colour safe chart:

Fabio

Quote from: VS on February 13, 2012, 07:40:26 PM
I think the walls are a bit too monotonous...? Maybe only part of these could be player colour, which would allow more texture.
Possibly. Also the dithering is ok but not the best outcome possible.
Would concrete be a good option? I'll try tomorrow.

VS

fabio: I think that would work well :)

Bughu Baas: It's in Prague... dunno where, but I think it's this: http://mapy.cz/#x=14.467362&y=50.092790&z=16&l=15

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

sdog

The bridge above, with the slotted structure, reminds me to suggest something like this for hight speed tunnel entrances. To reduce tunnel boom housings with slots or holes are in use and under development.

here's a picture of Katzenbergtunnel, currently under construction, where such windows can be seen.



here's the first tunnel booming tunnel in germany: Irlahuell

Also note the dense spacing of the masts supporting the catenary. The pressure changes at tunnel entrance has a very severe effect on the wire, with intricate ways to compensate this.

[As a side note, miners of Irlahuell ran into massive difficulties due to Karst. They had to fill up several cavities. Interesting read (google translated)
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIrlah%25C3%25BClltunnel%23Karstproblematik ]

Václav

Quote from: ӔO on February 13, 2012, 08:35:44 PM
It looks like czech republic. I think I've seen that colour scheme there before.
but where exactly, I'm not sure.
It does not like like Czech republic. It is Czech republic.

It was built in Prague to connect Masaryk's station and main station - and to simplify way from Prague to Ústí nad Labem and further ... Bad Schandau, Dresden, Berlin, Hamburg.

Quote from: VS on February 13, 2012, 09:19:22 PM
Bughu Baas: It's in Prague... dunno where, but I think it's this: http://mapy.cz/#x=14.467362&y=50.092790&z=16&l=15
Yes. It is part of Nové spojení (New connection - you may find some another photos on en.structurae.de).

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Fabio

So, here's a new preview of tracks and bridges for 400 km/h and 320 km/h:


Zeno


mEGa

Better and better !
I think that daily cost of the maintenance will be very expensive ;-)
Great really !
Current projects in progress : improvements of few designed french paks

Václav

Oh no. I looked on picture again - and deeply. Electrification poles on crossing are (again?) wrong positioned. Look at crossing. Electrification pole is in track. That is clearly confusing - and nonsense.

I know that my very old overhead electrification for speed 160 km/h was graphically poor - but I, at least, prevented such things like poles in track. And how? I did pole for crossing electrification a little higher than other ones - and let all three parts hang on this pole - that was on outer side.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

VS

Heh, I didn't mean you should trash *all* player colour, but this is nice, anyway :)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Fabio

@Vladimir: I know you didn't mean it, but then I didn't find any suitable place for player colour... I mean, just a stripe looks pretty ugly... Like for 160 km/h I will see later, now I'll consider them quite final version. Still elevated to finish, but once the layout is done the road is downhill.

By the way, I hope I'll be able to release by the end of the month an alpha release with summer version of all objects for testing purposes.

@Vaclav: maybe working on existing images could do the trick. I'm definitely willing to work on electrification as well, to make it match with the rest of the set-- maybe together with the winter version of the objects...

@all: thank you for the most appreciated feedback!

Fabio

Still WIP (mostly some disalignment and missing pillars), elevated for 400 km/h and 320 km/h.
Take a look at the pillars for 400 km/h (only elevated, bridges will maintain those of previous screenshot).

400 km/h


320 km/h

greenling

fabio
cool photo they you be take here in the forum.
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The Assistant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

sdog

This looks rather good. Some suggestions though:

There could be more structure on the rail bed, it's a bit difficult at the very rough resolution of a pak. But pronouncing the perpendicular lines a bit more would help. You could also darken the area next to the concret bed. The elements of the concrete bed are made from a different concrete, the water also runs down from them, taking dirt to the area below.

The surface next to the rail could be brocken up by some water management structures and cable channels. That would be something looking like a walkway close to the parapet and some dark gray irregular gradient perpendicular to the rail direction.

Some corrosion could break up the large grey surfaces on the outside. That's some brownish stains, if you put it at the ends of tiles it would also emphasize the tiles.

sorry not offering any sollutions here, i can't imagine how anything could be done at this scale -- but i couldn't imaginen how anything like the above could be done -- yet you did it.

HDomos

Awesome tracks :) i can't wait to play with them... Small thing... it is a little bit strangness with the 320km/h and 400km/h elevated diagonal tracks when they go horizontal on the pictures, the pillars aren't there... Maybe it's an optical illusion, but its strange...

Fabio

Well spotted! Pillars are missing. Next screenshot will feature them.

Fabio

Now, new (improved) screenshots:

400 km/h elevated




320 km/h elevated




400 and 320 km/h bridges




Quote from: sdog on February 16, 2012, 01:31:16 AM
There could be more structure on the rail bed, it's a bit difficult at the very rough resolution of a pak. But pronouncing the perpendicular lines a bit more would help. You could also darken the area next to the concret bed. The elements of the concrete bed are made from a different concrete, the water also runs down from them, taking dirt to the area below.

The surface next to the rail could be brocken up by some water management structures and cable channels. That would be something looking like a walkway close to the parapet and some dark gray irregular gradient perpendicular to the rail direction.

Some corrosion could break up the large grey surfaces on the outside. That's some brownish stains, if you put it at the ends of tiles it would also emphasize the tiles.

Not done yet-- I'll consider these suggestions (also applicable for other bridges, of course) in a second phase, probably after the test release, while I'll prepare also the winter version.  Thanks anyway, they are much appreciated!


Fabio

New preview: 200 km/h bridge (years 1940-2000; repainted from scratch)




VS


My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

sdog

i was thinking the same as VS. (i didn't use the similar looking bridge in the old pak for that reason)


two more (non-constructive) critcisms:
the colour looks a bit like it is made from stainless steel.
the beams look like they were rounded. you might want to put some shade close to the edges to make them look like concave instead of convex, to resemble profiled steel (WP: I-beam, aka H-beam, Rolled Steel Joist)

Fabio

I can agree on size. Now it's 8 px wide, I think 4-6 px could new enough, without looking too flimsy. Instead it's 3 to 4 px thick and it can't get less.
It's supposed to be concrete and it uses the same texture of its tunnel and of 160 km/h bridge (whereas 180, 320 and 400 km/h bridges use a lighter concrete texture).  Maybe the lighting is too strong, giving it the metal feeling.
Being concrete, though, exclude IMHO the option of I-beam profile (which will be uses for slower speeds truss bridges).

sdog

oh, therefor the large width! perhaps if it appears more like concrete, the width of the structure does not look strange anymore.

Haven't seen such a bridge yet fabio, how are they called, so i can google?